Ugur started a very good discussion on his blog about current obstacles and bugs in Flash Lite 3 implementation, and how they are effecting developers.
I’d like to continue the discussion by posting my thoughts here.
Flash Lite 3.0 and 3.1
Ugur already discussed the current issues with Flash Lite 3 with Security Sandbox (or as Ugur named it Security Painbox), Trusted folder and XML Socket.
I read somewhere when I was following news about FL3.1 release to OEMs that FL3.1 is sort of a bug fix for Security Sandbox. And it will remove this *feature*.
I raised my thoughts quite strongly about Security Sandbox issue in FL3 beta, and even many developers were standing with me, but to no avail. Now they have learned that this is a curse to FL developers, now here comes the FL3.1 with a bug fix. And start of another J2ME like fragmented technology!
Adobe/MM is used learn lessons hard way. They did same with Central and the product died, and they are continuing with FL as well which I believe is quite unfortunate.
I have some more FL issues to add in FL Pain-List,
1. So many nags
FL shows many nags for each operation which involves device APIs. For example if my application calls fscommand API to dial a phone number, FL player shows a nag to user, and if user selects yes, then it performs operation.
Not to mention, that most of these APIs are only triggered through “User-Click” events, so if user does not press any button, the API cannot be called, or its ignored. So, when user have already interacted with application to perform operation, there’s no need to ask the user again.
2. Browser – click on FL control
Adobe and Nokia trying to make FL to work better as browser plugin, and not supporting standalone implementation very well. There’s a big drawback thats not fixed even in latest FL3, and I’m sure it will be same in FL3.1.
When <object>/<embed> tag is used to embed SWF in a page specifically made for FL3 mobile devices, the mobile browser does not give focus to SWF, and user first have to select and click SWF content to interact. This is similar as Active Content issue with IE6/7.
We can write a script to avoid this behavior in IE, but there’s no workaround for mobile browser for embedded SWF. The only workaround I discovered is directly calling the SWF in browser. This way SWF is downloaded to temp and opened by built-in FL player.
3. Can’t quit without key-press
FL application cannot quit until user key-press event is detected. The add-on with this is that only one operation can be performed at a time. So, if I have a background process running (i.e. KuneriLite), I cannot send shutdown request via loadVars to BG engine and quit FL at the same key-press event.
I have to first make a request for shutdown on first key-press, and on second key-press, call to Quit fscommand to exit FL application. So, user have to click twice to close my application.
4. If unable to load data, terminate app?
The most bad user experience is that the exception/error is directly displayed to end-user. I.e. “Content error -13”, what that mean? And user is provided with two options, Continue and Close.
If user continues, the application works, and there’s no way in AS we could notice that there was a error. And if user selects close, the application is terminated.
There’s no way to control errors in FL using AS. Specifically when loading external content. If any data loading call fails, the application cannot get any thing about this before user selects continue on the error nag.
5. Adobe not responding
The more frustration for me starts when no one at Adobe reply to emails. There’s a separate email for mobile developers to get in touch with FL guys at Adobe, but it doesn’t work, or all the emails go into spam folder.
I have personal emails addresses of FL guys, but I found them replying to mailing-lists, but not off-list emails, not a single word I get back, even if I try twice :/
Conclusion
I’d like to conclude by giving Nokia a big praise for their great support to FL developers and community. The way Nokia engineering team get back to developers to help, I’m impressed!
I also hope that recent announcements made by Adobe regarding FL technology would be step forward in right direction. And I also hope that Adobe would hear and support the FL developers community, and developers who are trying to explore new possibilities with FL.
// chall3ng3r //
May 17th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
[...] Continued: The Pain of Flash Lite 3 I feel your pain. All these issues need to be addressed. (tags: flashlite swf2go kunerilite) [...]
May 18th, 2008 at 8:38 pm
Hi Faisal,
Nice post and further good points.
1. So many nags is a Nokia tradition and a terrible user experience in my opinion. Under the name of security, they ask user to confirm anything. Well, there is a security reason behind; but I don’t see the point. Check how iPhone handles everything in a very nice way, without bugging user. I only entered my WLAN password once to iPhone and never (ever) saw even a confirmation dialog again. It connects to internet where ever available without even I notice. For Nokia phones, you have to dig out menus, repeat same process again and again. I know that FP2 devices will have different UI, let’s see how it’s handled there. For users or for geeks.
I believe, there is nothing much to do about it from Adobe’s side; due I believe Nokia is the one who decides these things.
2. In my opinon, Adobe’s and Nokia’s strategy is pushing Flash Lite as a browser plugin. But it’s ridiculously unusable due to the reason you mentioned. I personally do not see any way that I would use Flash Lite with Nokia browser. Totally not-usable. (Unless users pushed to get used to in years).
Do you know how is the UX with other browsers (ie SE)
Another point here: Things do not go as you plan always. Sometimes you release a product with a different intention; but community finds a completely different use case for that. I believe this is the case for Flash Lite. Although Adobe and Nokia wants to push it for a browser plugin, maybe over 90% of Flash Lite content you see is with standalone player. I don’t see why to push that much: Message is clear.
3. That’s another issue and why we created a special command for that.
http://wiki.kunerilite.net/index.php?title=Special_commands
loadVariables(”http://127.0.0.1:1001/Basic/Close”, “”);
Will close Flash Lite as soon as it’s called.
People may ask why you need such thing; well, sometime when user wants to quit, you need to perform some actions before quiting. And there is no way without this command. That’s why..
4. Again a usability issue. Do you know how it behaves on other platoforms?
5. Ok, to be honest, at the beginning I had the same problem. Couldn’t get direct response from anyone. I understand it though, hard to respond everyone, for every detail; especially if there are some confidential information is involved. However, right now there are Forums, mailing lists and a big factor called Mark Doherty, who in my opinion is a great added value to Flash Lite developers from Adobe’s side. From Nokia, situation was same, but since Riku got into the picture, things changed in a positive way in my personal opinion. At least I see that those guys actively get involved in mailing lists, forums and even direct emails, trying to bring an answer or solution to problems. I am sure they will state their opinion here as well
In my opinion, these kind of conversations / discussions / feedbacks are in favor of the community and technology. Aren’t there great things about Flash Lite 3.0? Yes there are, but bragging does not usually take things further, but constructive criticism.
May 19th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Hi Faisal,
Thanks for the post, Bill Perry and I are always listening and we push as much feedback as we can into the products.
“5. Adobe not responding”
If you don’t get responses then you should ask specific questions. Put your questions at the end of emails, make them bold or we might miss them.
This month we announced the Open Screen Project which is specifically geared to reducing the potential of fragmentation as we move to the 1 billion device mark. Considering the amount of companies involved it would appear that this is important not just to Adobe, but to the whole industry.
Mark
Mark
May 20th, 2008 at 12:00 am
@Ugur, for your question in #2, I have only used FL on S60 devices, so I’m not sure how is the UX on SE/LG or other devices.
#2, Yes, I also think same,
for your question on #4, On desktop browsers, Flash simply ignores errors, and user never knows if any error has hapened at all. From Flash 9, now debug player shows a detailed exception in a popup window.
Yes, of course, these discussions are put on just to help Adobe and other technology partners about what developers want FL to be.
// chall3ng3r //
May 20th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Thanks Mark,
I just found that Bill have posted somthing about FL3.1
http://www.flashdevices.net/2008/05/flash-lite-3-security-issue-resolution.html
Thats just great!
Keen to know more about the fixes comming up in this new release.
// chall3ng3r //
May 20th, 2008 at 10:29 am
[...] to be in a community where discussions (another one here) turn into actions. Bill and Mark from Adobe gave the good news that Flash Lite 3.0 security issue [...]
May 20th, 2008 at 11:01 am
[...] Bill) – After some disappointed views about the security model for Flash Lite 3 applications for Nokia S60 devices, [...]
May 20th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
[...] with the new player Security settings. About this there are good articles from Ugur and chall3ng3r that point out this has caused problems in having, for example, an application loading both local [...]
May 21st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
[...] duda los posts de Ugur y Faisal les han hecho reflexionar sobre cómo estaba el panorama y problemas que ya estaban sobre la mesa [...]
May 30th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Hey I love your work! We are working on a FlashLite project…have some questions..can you help?
May 30th, 2008 at 6:21 am
Hi Nussar,
Thanks for appriciation. Yes sure, i have sent you an email.
// chall3ng3r //
September 26th, 2008 at 9:09 am
I love that expression “Painbox”
as it´s so convenient.
September 5th, 2009 at 10:43 am
Thanks, and GREETINGS FROM GERMANY
my motto: Mountains never meet, people always